heating up tonight in the wake of a report that claims more than half of private individuals who met can clinton when she was secretary of state donated to her family's foundation. trump says the foundation should be shut down. clinton's camp insisting that the report lies on, quote, utterly flawed data. let's get to jason carroll. jason, you covered the rally down there tonight. what do donald trump have to say to the crowd if. >> there were a number of topics he addressed. there were the issues of the 15,000 e-mails, talked about the clinton foundation, basically calling it a pay for play system. the crowd responded well to that. he made that appeal to african-american voters saying something that he said before saying if you have don't feel as though you can walk down the streets without being shot, what do you have to lose by voting for me, donald trump.

once against we heard that appeal. we are here in texas, it is a border state and illegal immigration came up here tonight as well. >> and trump and his surrogates have been softening the message, as they say this is a softening of his immigration policy. he did sound like he was backing away from the deportation thing tonight. >> reporter: right. his critics are certainly going to pounce on that interview he gave earlier today, don, as you know where he was asked the question about illegal immigrants coming to this country, working, providing, perhaps with children the interviewer asked him, would you change your position? he said certainly there can be a softening because we are not looking to hurt people. tonight he sounded like a hardliner making an attempt to go after hillary clinton for

being weak on the border. take a listen to what he had to tell the crowd a little earlier this evening. >> and hillary clinton wants a totally open border. she wants catch and release. she wants obama care and other things for illegal immigrants in many cases more than our great veterans get. she has said she's going to give massive amnesty in her first 100 days. >> so really going after hillary clinton here tonight on the issue of illegal immigration, but at the end of the day here, don, tomorrow one of the headlines without question is going to be donald trump and this, quote, unquote, softening of his position.

when it comes to his position to illegal immigration, he's changed many times. he said at the beginning he wanted to deport all 11 million people here in the country. then his position changed, just deport the bad ones, then it changed again saying my position is pretty much in line with what the president is already doing. just to give you a little bit more insight into this in terms of how this campaign is sort of grappling with this issue, a little earlier this evening, i spoke to senator jeff sessions before he took the stage here and i asked him about donald trump and the softening of his position and his position on the issue. he was parsing his words. he said donald trump has not softened his position in terms of the legality of illegal immigration but went on to say this is an issue that donald trump is clearly, quote, wrestling with. >> softening, jason. remember, it's not change, not a flip flop, it a softening of his

position. i want to turn to mr. jeff zeleny. softening, jeff, softening. there are a lot of barbs thrown as hillary clinton but none tougher than that one. >> lie after lie after lie. hillary clinton is totally unfit to hold public office. it is impossible to figure out where the clinton foundation ends and the state department begins. >> so let's tell our viewers if they are just tuning in, he's talking about news today on possible ties between hillary clinton and the clinton foundation when she was secretary of state. >> reporter: in a nut shell the associated press analyzed a lot of the calendars and records

from secretary clinton's time in the state department and they found in their analysis that more than half of the meetings she had were with donors to the clinton foundation, either individual or group donors. they're pointing out that there is a line potentially was crossed here in terms of allowing access. i mean, donald trump has been calling for an end to the clinton foundation for a long time, he's been calling her corrupt and crooked for a long time. but this new associated press report out tonight simply adds some fuel to that. one of the issues here is that this isn't a new issue. donald trump is not introducing something brand new to his audience tonight in texas. the questions about the clinton foundation have been asked for years really. we are getting some new information in terms of e-mails that are turned over and other things but it is hard to imagine that something at this point is

going to change many minds. yes, people on the right certainly believe there is something nefarious and corrupt at the clinton foundation connected maybe with the state department. on the left i'm hearing with so many democrats saying why are you talking about the foundation again, this has been investigated ad nauseam. so the issue is this is sort of a sound track of the summer but i'm not sure this is going to advance the ball at all. and the clinton campaign pushed back hard on this report tonight saying it simply was not accurate. >> here's how they responded tonight. this story relies on utterly flawed data. the state says it omits

countless meetings she took with world leaders let alone count s countless others she took with other u.s. government officials while serving as secretary of state. >> the clinton foundation has a perception problem. they recognized that. that's why they decided this week to vastly change their rules should she be elected president. just yesterday president clinton sent out a letter to his donors saying, look, i will state police down from the foundation boa board, i will stop raising money from foreign governments and other things if she is elected president. so we know there is a perception problem. we're seeing a lot of the foundation's allies. no question they've done a lot of good work with malaria, drinking water, aids testing and malaria around the world. the point is was there a line crossed? were donors given special

access? this question is not going to be answered between now and election day, perhaps even beyond that. this is simply going to be one of those things, a clinton controversy, like many of them over the years largely of their own making. >> and something that their opponent will use up until and beyond election day. here to discuss all of this, maria cardonis, angela rye -- >> i'm glad that we're talking more about the great things that the can't foundation does. >> but you agree there is an issue with perception? >> if you want to make it an issue, sure. but as somebody who has worked in washington, we talked about this. i've worked for three cabinet secretaries under the clinton administration. i can't tell you how many people

would call me and would e-mail me who were good friends of my boss, who had donated to the clintons, who were asking for a meeting or asking for some sort of favor? my response is you have to go through official channels, and i wouldn't do anything. if it was appropriate for my boss to do, it was done, regardless the fact of someone who was a friend. but we're not going to tell them to go fly a kite. >> to most people around the country who don't work in washington, d.c., it might seem out of sorts. you say this is the way washington works. >> i did say that, don? and now i want to change that a little bit. i don't think that things are that different. if you have even take your child's birthday party, it not open to the community. it's an invitation -- it's based on who you know. so sometimes there are different access point in relationships

business, in relationships period that you'll know to go to. i think part of this issue is you're making much adieu about nothing. in the earlier segment i know congressman kingston mentioned there was basically a legal problem. in the same a.p. story they say the meetings between the democratic nominee and foundation donors do not appear to violate legal agreements that hillary clinton and former president clinton signed before the establishment of the foundation. >> the crown prince of bahrain had gone through official channels to request a meeting with secretary clinton. those were denied. they make a donation and reach out to huma abedin and

magically -- >> not magically. >> the associated press and all reports is saying there is no evidence of a quid pro quo. go on and finish. >>i well, the fact that officia channels were gone through, no meeting was scheduled, a donation made to the clinton foundation and magically a meeting happens. >> that's not how it happened. >> i want to stick to the topic and i don't want to go off on a tangent. alice was saying a meeting magically happened. you guys are saying that's not the way that happened. explain that and congressman, you can get in after. >> huma abedin's response when she was asked for this meeting, by the crown prince of bahrain, she said this meeting is routing through official channels.

so essentially she took herself out of it. it was a meeting that was in the process of being put together. >> this is the crown prince of bahrain saying he's in tomorrow asking to see her, it said "good friend of ours." and it says you have to go through officials, on this particular subject with the e-mails, can you talk to this particular subject before we go on? >> yes, i can. >> do we really believe that somebody said he's a good friend of ours? no kidding. he just gave $32 million to the foundation. >> let him finish. >> if everything the clinton foundation does is so great, why do they want to close it down? >> they don't want to close it down. >> you want to close it down.

>> i sat back patiently so i got some floor time. >> the clintons don't want to close it down. donald trump is saying it should be closed down. >> they said if she is elected president, they're not longer going to take foreign donations. >> if it's wrong for her to take donations as president, what is it not wrong to if she's secretary of state? i think there should be a special prosecutor. all i want to do is clear her name. she's having trouble with these e-mails and -- >> you had your say, you had your say because we've been talking about the clinton foundation for almost an hour and a half. what is so rich about donald trump asking for a special prosecutor is that here you have a guy who refuses to turn over his taxes. the first candidate in 40 years -- >> what does that have to do with the special prosecutor? >> that's not illegal.

>> in his taxes, right, we will see whether he has connections to russia, connections to the bank of china, which we already know hold massive amounts of debt -- it's my turn to talk. >> let her talk. >> massive debt to the bank of germany. if he becomes commander in chief of the united states he'll have at his friningers tips to chang policy to effect something positive for china, for germany, for russia. hang on, i'm not finished. >> i don't thinkmcongressman, p respectful. >> so that should be much more concerning because then those positive policy changes would not just help those countries which are sometimes hostile to the united states but they would be focused on lining his own pocket. >> alice stewart, go.

>> i think that we have bill clinton who said if she is elected president, he'll step down. james carville went to the fact if it does shut down, people will die in the foundation shuts down. look, he also -- james carville also said it's the economy, stupid. in this situation we're talking about the economy of the clinton family to the tune of $156 million, who don't know the difference between where the state department ends -- >> they don't take a cent from the foundation, not one cent. >> don't forget, they left the white house flat broke. it was said earlier children would die in africa. i was on the foreign actions committee that oversaw the foreign aid. i have been to dozens of the aids in africa program, the malaria programs and i can tell up we stumbled on to gates foundation money, we stumbled on

to rotary international money all the time. i did not see that much clinton foundation. why weren't they at the democratic national convention saying here's an example of our good work. >> they have a five star rating from philanthropy foundation folks. >> your facts are not right. as a correspondent who has been in africa on the outskirts of kigali, they do very good work. that's not to say there may not be some issues that comes to secretary of state clinton but the clinton foundation saves a lot of lives. i think james carville is right that if it was shut down, lives would be in jeopardy. i've got to get to a break. i will let you fin, right after the break. we'll be right back. where we explore. protecting biodiversity. everywhere we work. defeating malaria. improving energy efficiency.

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breaking news to report to you right now out of italy tonight, a strong earthquake striking central italy. it happened just a little while ago, 3:32 a.m., 6.2 in magnitude hitting the southeast town of

norcia, 3:36 a.m. local time, 6.2 in magnitude, hitting the southeast town of norcia. 5.2 aftershocks as well. people are possibly trapped in the rubble. we'll get you more information as we get it. i want to turn to donald trump's rally in austin tonight talking to supporters about his immigration proposals, slamming hillary clinton, saying she's unfit to be president. bark with back with me, my panel. i was talking about the clinton foundation, the foundation has done some great work in africa. it doesn't mean there aren't issues with the state department. >> i used to live in africa as a

very small child. i visited africa in many times and many clinics, for james carville to say people would diet withoeye without the clinton foundation, that's a completely. there's this consistent lying and cover-up with the clinton family. the clinton family made $141 million. in the history of america, what other cabinet member has ever had such a scenario? >> you're not saying they should not have made any money, right? >> i believe them making $141 million, i've heard bill clinton speak and he's a good speaker. not $141 million worth. >> are you accusing them of stealing from the foundation? is that what you're doing? >> it a quid pro quo. it's a pay to play.

>> a quid pro quo for what? that's a huge accusation, congressman. and it's not true. >> well -- >> they don't get paid one red cent from the clinton foundation. >> you're going for a special prosecutor for crimes that are not even on the table. even the a.p. report acknowledges they're not in violation -- >> the a.p. reporter said there weren't favors done. access is a favor. >> congressman kingston you have special access as the former member of the united states house of representatives. you can go down to the floor and lobby your fellow members on behalf of your -- >> no, that's not true. >> you don't still have access to the floor of the house? >> i got to soften this position and pivot right now because i want to talk about -- >> we're all trying to help put this to rest, put this to bed and let's bring in a special

prosecutor. >> let's talk about immigration, alice. >> for the simple fact that the cornerstone of his campaign while he was going through the primary process was he was going to be the one to make serious changes when it comes to immigration. that was a focal point of his campaign throughout the primary process and we heard repeatedly i'm going to build a wall, mexico will pay for it, we're going to deport illegals. we all knew there were aspects that could not be carried out to it but that's what built his base and now we're in a general election and he does need to

soften his message and make some tweaks here and there -- >> that's a hell of a tweak. >> he wants to deal with immigrants and deal with them in a humane way. >> miss stewart, how long have i i known you? almost eight years now. a long time. >> eight years now. >> since the 2008 campaign. how is this not a flip-flop? >> it's not a flip-flop. it's a softening of a position. the truth is, it's going to be a difficult, tough road to hoe when this has been a cornerstone of his campaign and he does need to make tweaks on this, the key things he needs to keep in mind, you have to keep that base that got him to where he is and -- >> that's a good point, alice. >> he has to bring in hispanics, independents -- >> that's not happening. >> they don't want such harsh rhetoric. >> she's right hereby does have

-- he does have to go for the middle. do you think that will help him or hurt him with supporters? >> i think it will hurt him with supporters. his spoupporters came out and supported him because of his draconian programs. because high wants to have a program just like eisenhower did call operation wetback. if what he's saying is true, which we don't know yet because his campaign and he are very schizophrenic on the stump, we don't know what he's putting out there. >> marco rubio was ridiculed in nearly every primary debate for having this same position, marco rubio who is part of the gang of six on the senate side, a bill passed the senate but couldn't get considered on the house floor was ridiculed for this.

this was essentially why they voted against marco rubio in this general election. donald trump is not only embracing that position, but he's embracing barack obama's position, george w. bush's position. this is substantially more than a flip-flop. it is actually offensive. and i think that people need to hold him accountable for this. it's not just softening of a position. it's a complete 180. this is a new donald trump. >> as long as we're talking about immigration and being tough on the border, we're winning because hillary clinton is out of step with the american people on this. >> you all you are on the same page now. >> let him talk. >> donald trump has been consistent, secure your border, protect american jobs and that is so important to the people who have seen their household income fall from 57 to $53,000. we have 43 million people on food stamps under barack obama,

94 million are underemployed under barack obama -- >> this is something that was researched yesterday evening and the reason for the food stamps and all that is in large part because of the great recession. it has nothing -- it has very little, if anything, to do with immigrants or illegal immigrants. >> he's had seven years with his hands on the steering wheel. we've had an anemic recovery -- >> yes, but if you're looking at the numbers -- i was addressing that you're specifically talking about aid and food stamps and that. you can't really tack it on to illegal immigration. >> no, don, because what donald trump is talking about is protecting american jobs and american workers from their jobs going to illegal immigrants. >> meanwhile, donald trump is making his clothes made

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hillary clinton and donald trump putting out new ads and neither one pulls any punches. here to discuss now republican consultant margaret hoover, bob beckel and republican media consultant john braybender. hello to all of you. >> hello. >> mr. braybender, hillary clinton's latest ad is using donald trump's own words against him. >> in times of crisis america depends on steady leadership. >> knock the crap out of them, would you? >> clear thinking. >> i know more about isis than the generals do, believe me. >> and calm judgment. >> and you can tell them to go [ bleep ] themselves. >> so, john, this isn't the first time that the clinton ad that we have seen using trump's own language against him, but this time they put his words in

the context of the country's safety. effective? >> well, i think this is more the context of what they've been doing for the last month. they're trying to put a question mark around donald trump. i think it's also the context you have to really look at this is they've decided they are not going to make this about hillary clinton. they know people don't like her. i'm sure that they've tested this and found there's very few messages that will move anything positively towards her so they decide they're going to make this a referendum on donald trump. base cl basically what they're saying is if you don't like me, i'm less likely to accidentally blow up the world than donald trump is. >> trump's ad also has a grim outlook. >> in hillary clinton's america, the system stays rigged, illegal immigrants convicted of committing crimes get to stay,

collecting social security benefits skipping the line, our border open, it's more of the same before worse. donald trump's america is secure, terrorists and dangerous criminals kept out. >> john, you say you wish trump's ad actually featured donald trump? >> yeah. i think my problem with that ad and my guess is that that ad was conceived before kellyanne was in charge. it really plays to the base. it really plays to people already voting for trump. i think they have to make this transition to make it where people want to vote for him. i'd rather see him as the messenger in their ad and rather have it something more visionary and hopeful than negative and critical. >> i was saying to margaret, it seems a little old school, seems a little mitt romneyesque -- >> from another era. the thing that's so extraordinary and disheartening is that both candidates are running as a referendum on the

inadequacies of the others. there isn't anything inspirational or hopeful. john your wish is my wish and all of our aspirations in po politics but we're never going to get there this time sadly. the worst part is donald trump has sewed the seeds thof this rigged system. it sets up the reality that if hillary clinton were to win the election is day one she's seen as an inadequate president. he gets to go off on vacation and leave us with the civic fabric of our country more frayed and less cohesive. it's a very self-interested and unpatriotic message to leave the american people with. >> bob beckel, what do you say to that? >> this may be the first election where the majority of

the people go to the polls to vote against someone. on her ad and using his voice, i think it's perfectly fine. it ought to be done and it ought to be done more. look, trump's said these things, he stepped in it himself and the problem i've got with his ad is it's so dark. i agree with john. it seems to me that trump's got a real problem. if he doesn't know it, at least kellyanne or someone must know it that people don't trust him, they think he's a shyster. that ad reminded me of willie horton back in the '88 campaign. that one happened to work but this one i don't think is going to work. >> i think that was my initial response, that it just seemed old school. it may be very effective but it seemed old school. hillary clinton is flooding the airwaves with campaign ads,

appeared on jimmy kimmel last night, but she only has one campaign event scheduled this week. and then we have donald trump, who made a small advertising buy but has four big rallies this week. margaret, what's your take on the two different strategies here? >> donald trump doesn't have the resources that hillary clinton has. he had one month where he said oh, we caught up. he far lags behind mitt romney in 2012 and his numbers aren't there. he's compensating with earned media. he's been in ohio day after day after day having huge rallies. this is a campaign that has spent more on renting stadiums in key target states than they have on field staff in any states. it's an earned media strategy and it's gotten him to date $3 billion in free ads. >> does it matter at this point that he's behind in the polls but not that much. some polls he's catching up.

does that even party the traditional way that march get is talking about? >> i possibly have made more political ads than anybody on the planet. i've been doing this for a long time. and the secret is presidential ads matter less than probably any other race because they get so much free media. with that said, i care a lot about messaging and i do think trump needs to transition to being more hopeful about what his america is going to look like and how everybody's going to share in that and what's in that for them. we got to get away from him being the one who is doing the prosecution of hillary clinton. let other people do that and let him start being a little bit hopeful and people start feeling like they're going to be proud to be americans more than they are today. >> is his message too dark? is hillary clinton not on the campaign trail enough? we'll discuss after this. hours. calling all nine-to-fivers and night owls.

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i want to update you on breaking news. just moments ago, out of italy tonight, a strong earthquake striking central italy, 3:36 a.m. local time, 6.2 in

magnitude, hitting the southeastern town of norcia, i italy, followed by a 5.5 magnitude aftershock. the town of ahatitre has been badly damaged with officials say half the town is gone. we turn back to the campaign trail. donald trump backing down on rumors discrediting hillary clinton's health. before we get to the health thing, i want to know, bob, we talked about being out on the campaign trail, not being out on the campaign trail, is the clinton campaign making a tactical error on a week where

republicans are out in full force hitting hard on her foundation and e-mails in an evident to get trump's poll numbers up? >> no. for a couple reasons. she has got such a substantial lead in the states -- they took their ads down in virginia. >> and colorado as well. >> and colorado as well. now, the other thing keep in mind is she was on the olympics with advertising, 50% positive, 50% negative and a lot of it. trump not one single thing. right now for hillary clinton, donald trump is the one who has to get back into this race, it not hillary clinton. frankly, if i were hillary clinton, i'd keep her off the trail as much as i could. except for that bogus los angeles times poll, every other one is consistent that she has a 5 to 5.5 point lead over him and

it doesn't seem to change. in ohio it's getting bigger and north carolina, michigan, pennsylvania, wisconsin. at the rate it's going, he's got to do something dramatic and maybe that will happen in the debate or he's going to get crushed. i mean crushed. >> john, do you think he's going to get crushed unless he does something dramatic? >> no. i think some of these polls are actually closer. i think, first of all, there is a closet vote for trump where people aren't going to tell a pollster they're for him -- >> oh, john, you are don't believe that. >> i don't think margaret believes it either. >> in pennsylvania in the primary, he won all 67 counties. nobody expected that because pennsylvania is not the most homogenous states in the world. he has to win every state that romney di, which is very doable and then if he can win ohio, pam

and florida, he becomes president of the united states. >> ohio, pennsylvania and florida. john, john, please, that's the yellow brick road, buddy. >> all i know is hillary is going to be seen as the incumbent, which means she's going to get very few undecided votes. donald trump we all agree had a few bad weeks -- >> a few? >> and she really didn't increase her numbers all that much. the national polls have come down and shrunk in the last five days -- >> i want margaret to get in. >> you're both sophisticated to know it's not the national polls that matter. it's the stay-by-state polls. look at the fundamentals in ohio, north carolina, and florida and they are -- pennsylvania is not looking good. in florida and north carolina when you look at the independent registration, not just the voter registration for republicans and democrats which seems to suggest a silver lining for republicans

by independent registration which far dwarves independent registrations, they both feel negatively but they feel worse about -- >> 75,000 -- >> let her finish her statement. >> it's not enough to count for the 9% deficit there. donald trump absolutely believes his ability to use twitter and talk directly to 10 million people and then have the subsequent sort of ripple effect of earned media he gets from it is also going to help him, that's why he doesn't need to pay as much for ads. he believes this is his ronald reagan approach, talk directly to the american people, but what's shocking, too, is the level of precision that one can have with social media, he is not taking advantage of. point of having a sophisticated campaign operation is to target

independent voters, go directly to where they are. he is still to your point earlier, john, running a primary campaign in a general election. >> they do have to expand it. there's a guy who beat 16 incredibly credible candidates in the primary by changing the rules. i think they are walking a tight line now with this paradox of when he plays to sort of the reagan democrats and some of the red meat they're looking for, it isn't always consistent with what some of the more moderate republicans are looking for, i think he has to marriage those messages better and i think there's still an opportunity to do that. if anybody wants to write off donald trump at this point, i think it's ridiculous. >> bob, i have breaking news. i'm sorry. we'll have to continue this discussion at another time. we'll come back and update our breaking news out of italy, the earthquake there 6.2 in magnitude. we'll be right back.

we have more now on our breaking news out of italy tonight to share with you. a strong earthquake striking central italy at 3:37 a.m. local time. 6.2 magnitude quake hitting

norcia county followed by 5.5 aftershock. in one town it was so badly damaged that people are trapped under the rubble according to the mayor who says half of the town is gone. we'll update you as we get back to this. now back to politics and specifically the claims about hillary clinton's health which seem to have struck her funny bone recently. cnn's jeanne moos die secssects outlandish claim. >> let me take my pulse while i'm talking to you. make sure i'm alive. >> jimmy kimmel put hillary to the test. >> can you open this jar of pickles? this has not been tampered with. >> oh, oh! >> reporter: pickle jar aside, some jokes are more jarring. >> donald trump has been saying that hillary clinton looks unwell. trump admitted that he admits

any woman over 35 looks like she is dying. >> reporter: some of the funniest comments about hillary's health aren't jokes. they're actual theories. for instance -- >> the time hillary acted startled by reporter's questions. >> it almost seems seizuresque to me. >> we have seaizures, psychotic facial ticks. >> putting it to music. even. >> even if the reporter said she wasn't and hillary wasn't having a seizure. doctors weren't buying in. >> i can't say that is a seizure. >> reporter: then there was pillow-gate. pillows propping up hillary and the anti-seizure injector pen, the secret service agent is clutching something. is it an emergency seizure string? it seems to be a flashlight. watch the agent point it at the

floor as hillary moves to a darker area. next thing you know, they'll be saying she is growing a tail. wait. a few have already said this is evidence she is possessed by the devil. jeanne moos, cnn, new york. >> that is it for us. thank you so much for watching. i'll see you right back here tomorrow. of a trip to athens, greece. you accidentally booked a flight to athens, georgia. with travelocity, there's no fee to cancel or rebook most flights within 24 hours. travelocity® wander wisely™

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good evening. thanks for joining us tonight. would donald trump keep backing away trt immigration hard line he rode all of the way to the republican nomination? is he backing away? he'll be speaking shortly tonight in austin, texas. we'll listen to that, and just this afternoon talking about the millions living here illegally he mapped out what could sound like president obama's current deportation policy. a lot of democrats are certainly saying that. we'll see if he does it again tonight and how hard-line supporters will react to how he himself will be softening tonight and we'll ask kellyanne conway about whether this constitutes a real change, fine-tuning or a flip-flop because we've heard it called all three. >> later, with trump and his surrogates fueling conspiracy theories about hillary clinton's health and we'll take a closer look at what we know about her health and donald trump's fitness. also, we have breaking news, the bruising headline for candidate clinton, more than 50% of the private individuals who met with her when she ran the state department were clinton foundation donors.